A Pale Horse Named Death, the Brooklyn-based band formed and fronted by Type O Negative and Life of Agony’s Sal Abruscato, released their third album, When The World Becomes Undone, earlier this year. I recently spoke with Sal about the creation of the new album, what brought the band back from their hiatus, their European touring ventures, and more. 

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You’ve got lots going on right now with A Pale Horse Named Death, you just came off the Season of the Dead European tour, which you just mentioned before we started the interview, how was that run?

It was fantastic, a lot of work, we covered a lot of ground. We did over 5000 miles on that run. It was great, and we also got to perform in some places we had never been to – for example, Sofia, Bulgaria, was a great show. There was a billboard with our artwork in a shopping mall, and we were on national TV doing interviews. It was a great show, and we also got to perform in Timișoara, Romania, and Bucharest, Romania, for a festival. And these were places we had never been to, along with Dublin, Ireland, Rotterdam, a host of German shows, we were in Milan…then we finished off in the UK. The band’s bigger in Europe than in the States, and we had laid a lot more ground back in the old days over there, too. It was a fantastic run and we’re already looking at the next one *laughs*. 

That’s awesome! That sounds like a lot of fun, did you have a personal favorite destination over in Europe?

There’s a bunch of places, but one day there was a travel day, and we stopped overnight in Slovenia. The town, I can’t remember the name of it, but it was just so beautiful, this little town in the mountains, it was gorgeous. I like stopping in Holland, it’s always beautiful over there. Many of the German cities, also. I’ve been going to Europe since 1990, so I have a bunch of favorites. I like the UK as well, but I’m not a fan of certain things over there either, like their plumbing structure and cleanliness. *laughs* But otherwise, great cities. But in my later years, I’m not a fan of just wandering the countryside, so going from places like Austria, traveling through the Alps, is a beautiful thing. That was always beautiful. 

Traveling, playing music, seeing cool sights, good stuff.

It’s fun, but it’s a lot of work. That’s the misconception, people think you get to do sightseeing when you’re on tour, but you have no time to do any sightseeing. You just see the dressing room, the hotel…like, for example, I’ve been to Paris maybe 16, 17 times in my life, but I’ve never been to the Eiffel Tower. I’ve only ever seen it from a distance, you know what I mean? We’re in all these great cities but we never get to go to the actual monuments and sights and go see certain things that make those cities famous. So it’s bittersweet, because you’re like, “Wow, this is a cool country. But I ain’t got time, because I’ve got a soundcheck and we’ve got to build our gear. So, only on a day off. If you happen to have a day off in somewhere cool, then you might get to go around a little bit, but it’s really just the hustle and bustle.

It’s true, a lot of people don’t really think that way, they’re just like, “Oh wow, how fun and easy, just go on tour with your band”, but that is not an easy thing to do.

No, brutal. It’s like bootcamp. A lot of people would not be able to handle it, it is pretty brutal depending on your finances, what you can and cannot afford.

Like accommodations and stuff, I know what you’re saying. 

Right, like, do you cram 4 people into one room, or do you have 4 hotel rooms? It’s those little things that make a world of a difference. 

And the ones who are able to handle it and deal with it as it comes along are the ones who stick with it.

Yeah, it definitely takes a certain character to handle it. So it’s not for the fragile. 

Music has never been for the fragile. So, I also want to dig into the making of When The World Becomes Undone, because that is an amazing album, and I’m wondering how the initial spark came about?

It started in 2014 when I was planning on trying to keep up with the scheduling of putting a record out much more often. So, I remember being in Europe somewhere watching, in 2014 there was a lot of stuff going on, as always, globally. And it was that whole rise of Isis and all this crazy terrorism, executing people, just craziness, and it was just kind of striking me as like, wow. Nobody’s learning anything in the world, the world’s falling apart. And it still is, that’s the funny thing, 4, 5 years later, this album that I sketched back in 2014 with this idea and concept and title, and I had a lot of the music written then. 5 years later, it’s no different, because the world’s nuts. So, I think I delved into a little bit of that, I delved into my usual manic depressive state that I am, touched on things that affect me, but always write it in a way that can be interpreted into anyone’s situation. And I’m glad I got it out, because it was like, the fans have been writing and waiting for something, now they’ve got something, so at least there’s a third record. But I’m already tapering on ideas and sketches on a future record, so I don’t want to take as long to do another album, that’s for sure, because time is not on our side. 

Well, fans will be happy about that part of it, that they’re not waiting too long for another new album. But it’s, unfortunately, true what you’re saying, that 4 or 5 years later, it’s still relevant to what’s going on in the world, but at the very least, you can make some good art out of it, right?

That’s it. Doom and gloom, more crazy things go on in our lives than they do good, that’s the sad part is that the reality of life can be really tough on people, fitting in can be tough on people,  manic depression can really be a serious disease that leads easily to suicide, and these are all real things that people battle on a daily basis. So I feel just being open and just talking about it, whether it’s through a song or just putting it into words, is a good way for those people to find a release that they, maybe, don’t have the ability to put it into words, because they are too afraid to say anything. So, I think that’s my niche, is just spitting it out there and just expressing these tones of darkness.

Of course, that expression is so important. And just like you said, some people will be able to relate to it, maybe they’re feeling, they’re experiencing certain things that they just don’t have the words or the sense to really make sense of it. But then if they can hear it in music, in lyrics that they can connect with, and say, “Yes, that’s it. That’s what I’m feeling, that’s what I experience”, that type of thing…even making just a few of those connections is very meaningful. 

Exactly. 

Now, what is your approach to songwriting? You said that you had some sketches for the next record, but do you have more of an overall vision first that you go in and make happen, or is it more of a natural “whatever comes out is what comes out” kind of thing for you? Or maybe a combination of both?

It’s a combination of both. I definitely have a vision of maybe, at moments, delving darker, but what also happens naturally is very important, because you don’t want to force anything. And if it maybe takes a little bit of a turn, direction-wise, well then, that’s okay, if that’s what’s naturally happening. One second, I might think, “well I want a slower song”, but then all of a sudden, something that has an upbeat tempo might come out of me that sounds like it’s out of a New Wave club, you know? And it’s dancey. So I kind of go with the flow, what it is, it is, and try to keep it as freeflowing and natural as it should be, let the song go where it wants to go, and if it wants to stop at a drop of a hat, have a deep, quiet part, then so be it. Anything goes, at that moment, what feels right is what feels right. It’s like wrangling wild horses, you just don’t want to confine them too much, you want them to have that spirit, but you do want to be able to reel them in a little bit and direct them the way you want them to go.

And it seems like you’ve got a good handle on controlling those wild horses. *laughs*

*laughs* I try. It’s hard. 

Is there any one particular standout track for you on this album?

Every song’s like a bastard child, you know? I always have a hard time singling out what’s my favorite, but of course, the opening title track, When The World Becomes Undone, which is something that was written in 2014, that’s always been the calling card where I knew, this is what I want to call the record, this is what it’s going to open with, this is where we’re going. And again, sometimes I love the experimentation of having other instruments, like piano, involved in a song, sometimes it’s not required. But this was a nice, interesting track, like I don’t care about how you’re going to do it live, I just want to make the song a great song. So that’s a standout song to me, because it’s orchestrated in a way that has some very deep valleys and high hills, it’s very dynamic. And I do enjoy songs like “Love The Ones You Hate”, I always was a fan of the Goth club type of New Wave-era upbeat songs, so I tend to always gravitate toward stuff like that as well, and I like playing stuff like that as well. So I won’t confine myself to say I would never do it again. And then, “Splinters” is another one for me, “End of Days” is another great song, there’s still songs on there that we haven’t gotten around to playing live that one day we’ll get to. It’s just that we’re at a point where once you have more and more records, even just doing a couple from each record, before you know it, you have a full set. So you can’t do everything all the time. But for me, it’s a form of expression, and then I start looking ahead and moving forward, I don’t dwell on those songs. Why? Because it’s done, I did the story, and now I’m futzing with the new ideas, I want to hear new guitar parts. And that’s what I do on tour a lot of times, when we’re up on stage turning our gear on and testing stuff and soundchecking, that’s when I come up with ideas that I then have to try to remember for when I get home, maybe I can record something. So I’m already there, I’m already thinking of new imagery, new titles, “where are we going to be a year from now”, I’m already thinking about that. So that’s what I’m psyched about. I would like to start hearing a couple of new songs put together, because once you have the first couple of songs, you start also seeing the direction as well, and the concepts. 

And that’s a great attitude to have, that kind of forward momentum.

Yeah, I like kind of being…prolific, is the word. I think dwelling or going back to things in the past, “let’s write like this, man”, I don’t think that works. I think when you do that, it’s contrived and it’s forced and it’s not going to be the way it should be. Just write, just let go and start jamming some riffs out. Sing some melodies and see where it goes, and that’s how a lot of the songs sometimes come out. 

I want to jump back to something you said when you were describing your standout songs, you said how much you like the New Wave Gothic 80’s scene, how you always liked that and still enjoy playing that. And that brings to mind the Uncovered single that you did, you covered The Cure – the epitome of Gothic New Wave – and “Prayers for Rain”, I love that.

I thought it was cool, I never did covers before, but I was like, “well, here’s a guy that’s singing about dreary lyrics”, and it shouldn’t be that hard to maybe put a twist on it. And I never did covers, and as I was singing it, I felt like this was a good challenge, because maybe I’m in my habit of just singing what’s comfortable for me in my songs. Let me sing someone else’s songs and maybe I won’t feel so comfortable, I’ll be challenged or pushed. And I really enjoyed doing what we did to those songs and I really enjoyed hearing the end results of, “wow, here we go, we did it”. It’s a cool little collectible item for the fans, I think, whoever got their hands on the 7” will have a cool limited edition collectible, and it was great. And now we know that we can do a cover if we want. 

That’s awesome, and of course The Cure’s “Prayers For Rain” makes sense for you guys, it’s dark, it’s epic, very much in the spirit of A Pale Horse Named Death. Now, you’ve got a US tour coming up early next year, and other than that, can you give a wrap-up update on what’s next for you?

I believe what else is in the works is March, we’re working on a tour to go back to Canada and some upstate stuff, and I believe mid-April to go do the places we haven’t done in Europe still, like Scandinavia, Poland, and then go to some new places like Estonia and Latvia. I think that’s all in the works, being routed and worked on. And then, I know they announced the festival that we’re doing in August, going back to Europe for about 3 weeks and doing a bunch of stuff along with festivals. Don’t know what’s going on yet in the States, we are going to try to fill up some stuff and maybe try to work in June as well. And in between all that, try to balance family, life, and work on new material to hopefully have something together maybe by the end of the year to hand over. And maybe we can have something out in 2021, that’d be great. 

Lots of stuff going on there, so much already in the works!

Yeah, I’m trying, time is of essence and we’re at the point where it’s like, I don’t know, these hiatuses aren’t really going to work out too well, and taking 5 years off…it happened for a bunch of reasons, but I don’t think I could afford to do that again, you need to keep the momentum up, and that’s important. 

Absolutely, well, it sounds like you’ve got some great momentum moving forward and lots for everyone to look forward to. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me, Sal!

Thank you for having me, Chelsea! Thanks for the support. 

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For more on A Pale Horse Named Death, visit: http://apalehorsenameddeath.com.